Annunciation Latin Masses Toronto and area - First in Barrie in over 50 years!

Saturday, 5 December 2015

Benedict XVI and Francis on "fundamentalism"

"Today, having a clear faith based on the Creed of the Church is often labeled as fundamentalism. Whereas relativism, that is, letting oneself be "tossed here and there, carried about by every wind of doctrine", seems the only attitude that can cope with modern times. We are building a dictatorship of relativism that does not recognize anything as definitive and whose ultimate goal consists solely of one's own ego and desires."- Pope Benedict XVI
“Fundamentalism is a sickness that is in all religions,” said the Pontiff. “We Catholics have some — and not some, many — who believe they possess the absolute truth and go ahead dirtying the other with calumny, with disinformation, and doing evil. They do evil. I say this because it is my Church.” - - Francis, Bishop of Rome

15 comments:

Dorota said...

Looking at these pictures side by side, I notice again, how proudly Jorge Bergoglio displays his (false) humility.
I am sure the previous popes would have preferred simpler clothes, if they put own comfort over the dignity of the office.

Of course, putting one's own conscience, intellectual ability, moral discernment above Church teaching, the fruit of generations of best thinkers and holy men, is the hight of false humility. It is also the hight of wickedness. When I accept and learn to appreciate the accomplishments of the giants on whose shoulders I am standing, this "humble" pope accuses ME of making claims to possessing the absolute Truth.

His insistence on acknowledging a personal truth as superior to the teaching of the Church is simply foolish ans evil, evil because he is the pope, foolish because our Holy Tradition is wise and holy, while he is not.

How come so few can see through this man, when he is so transparent? Have we really lost all intuition, all reason, all discernment? All grace?

Dorota said...

I said it as a person who lives simply. Had I been born in a palace and inherited beautiful objects, I hope I would be grateful for it, as well as generous. Beauty is good and necessary.

It hurts, when I think of what soviet barbarians did to the palaces of the aristocrats, or what the barbaric modernists in the Church do to churches and to our standards of beauty.

Mark Thomas said...

Vox, I just read a transcript of Pope Benedict XVI's September 14, 2012 A.D. press conference that he held on his way to Lebanon. As usual, Popes Benedict XVI and Francis reflect the same thinking.

Beirut (AsiaNews) - Speaking to journalists on the plane taking him to Beirut this morning, Benedict XVI said that the Arab spring was "a positive thing" as long as it is open to "tolerance of the other," whereas, "Fundamentalism is always a falsification of religion". The Church and other religions must purify themselves from this temptation. Peace in Syria requires an end to arms imports.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vox, Pope Benedict XVI responded to the reporter with the following:

"Fundamentalism is always a falsification of religion and goes against the meaning of religion [. . .] Therefore, the commitment of the Church and of religions is to undertake a purification..."

Pope Benedict praised the Arab Spring, insisted that we must dialogue with Moslems, and claimed that in the Middle East, Catholics and Moslems lived in peace with each other for centuries.

Pope Benedict XVI: "I would say that in itself, the Arab spring is a positive thing: it is a desire for greater democracy, greater freedom, greater cooperation and a revived Arab identity.

"Hence the renewed Arab identity seems to me to imply also a renewal of the centuries-old, millennia-old, coexistence of Christians and Arabs, who side by side, in mutual tolerance of majority and minority, built these lands and cannot do other than live side by side."
---------------------------------------------

Pope Benedict XVI declared: "I also believe that there must be an end to the importation of arms: without which, war could not continue.

"Instead of importing weapons, which is a grave sin, we should import ideas of peace and creativity, we should find ways of accepting each person in his otherness..."
--------------------------------------------

I don't find any difference between Pope Francis and Pope Benedict XVI in regard to the above.

1. Each insisted that the Church must purge Herself of Fundamentalism.

2. Each insisted upon dialogue with Islam.

3. Each insisted that Catholics and Moslems in the Middle East have lived "side-by-side" with each other for centuries. Pope Benedict XVI..." the centuries-old, millennia-old, coexistence of Christians and Arabs, who side by side, in mutual tolerance of majority and minority, built these lands and cannot do other than live side by side."

4. Each denounced the arms trade as a "grave sin" and blamed war upon arms trafficking. Pope Benedict XVI said "I also believe that there must be an end to the importation of arms: without which, war could not continue. Instead of importing weapons, which is a grave sin, we should import ideas of peace and creativity, we should find ways of accepting each person in his otherness, we should therefore make visible before the world the respect that religions have for one..."

When one reads Pope Benedict XVI's addresses on the Church, Ecumenical movement, interreligious "dialogue," economy, environment...one finds that Pope Francis has time and again simply repeated that which Pope Benedict had said and done.

Pope Benedict XVI said that the Church is committed irreversibly to the Ecumenical Movement, interreligious "dialogue"...he visited and prayed in Protestant churches, Synagogues, and Mosques.

He supported the Novus Ordo. He supported Vatican II.

Where are the major differences in their teachings?

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Mark Thomas said...

V ox, I appreciate the stylistic differences in the two photographs that you presented. I wish that His Holiness Pope Francis presented himself in the manner of the photo of Pope Benedict XVI.

However, in fairness to Pope Francis and in regard to what the two photos actually prove, we could show photos of Pope Benedict XVI alongside Popes Saint John XXIII, Venerable Pius XII, etc., when the earlier Popes appeared in full Papal regalia...particularly aloft on the sedia gestatoria, Triple Tiara, etc.

We could "prove" that Pope Benedict XVI promoted the "religion of man" by showing photos of him when he visited and prayed in Protestant churches, synagogues, and mosques. But would the photos have actually "proved" that?

Does this or that photo of Pope Francis actually "prove" that he practices "false" humility?

Pax.

Mark Thomas

Frank said...

Francis is a fundamentalist... modernist.
They bite.

Anonymous said...

That's a very basic fundamental chair he's sitting on,has a lot to say about fundamental Catholics ,never a word about fundamental Muslims,which goes to prove the Sword of Truth is feared more then the Sword of Islam which separates people from their heads.Do not fear those who can kill the body ,rather fear him who can destroy both body and soul in hell.

Sandpiper said...

Francis is a pall over the world. A pope should have some measure of wisdom, grace and intellect. Francis is a mean, grubby, coarse and wicked man. He needs our prayers.

Karl Rahner Jr. said...

"Of course, putting one's own conscience, intellectual ability, moral discernment above Church teaching, the fruit of generations of best thinkers and holy men, is the hight of false humility." Yeah, tell this to the Catholic neo-conservatives.

Vox Cantoris said...

Mark Thomas, these pictures were taken at the same event, the meeting with ambassadors of the various nations with the Holy See. The one of Francis was his first, in 2013. Benedict's demeanor, dress and the Throne is the norm. Even compared to others before him. It shows the supremacy of the Church over all nations. He is dressed as a Pope dresses. Francis is dressed in his house cassock. Would you wear jeans if you invited guests over for a formal dinner to show you are humble, or would it be insulting to them? The lowering of the Throne and its replacement by a simple chair, shows something more diabolical; - an equity amongst brothers and a religion of man for men. It is the antithesis of humility. True humility is accepting ones station.

A week ago, a priest wanted to publicly thank me after Mass for something I did for the community. I asked him not to, preferring to remain quiet so that the left hand does not let the right hand know. He said to me, "David, humility is also about letting others publicly thank you because they want to show their appreciation, it is a little like letting someone carry your bag up the plane steps when you're nearly eighty or living in the existing room, rather than take a whole floor out of use somewhere else. Now sit there and look humble."

There is no humility in the picture of the left; it shows a disdain for the Office and is an insult to Catholics.

Vox Cantoris said...

Mark, the Arab Spring was a sham. It is an long, violent, satanic Arab Winter. The only semblance of sanity in the Arab world was Lebanon and that has now slipped away. Arabs are incapable of reason and living in peace because they follow a false religion and a false god notwithstanding CCC 841 mentioned over night by a commenter on another post:

"841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Same god? Nope, not at all. They worship a false image of the revealed god for whom they 99 times except "Father" including that their allah is the greatest deceiver.

Benedict and Francis were NOT speaking of the same thing; Benedict was clearly referencing Islamic Fundamentalism because it was in the context of the Arab Spring.

The question asked to Francis had nothing to do with fundamentalism, he threw it in.

What is a Catholic fundamentalist?

Vox Cantoris said...

Mark, No Pope should visit a protestant prayer hall, they are heretics, no pope should visit a synagogue, they rejected the Messiah and no pope should ever visit a mosque because they deny Jesus as Son of God and God as Father, the Crucifixion and Resurrection. He can meet with them, preach to them on our property or neutral ground. To enter these courts is to give credence to a lie. No Pope should kiss the book known as the Koran, compiled by others as its founder was illiterate as well as being a murderer, warlord, rapist, child molester and a thief.

But to enter a mosque and pray towards the Kabaa in Mecca which is what he did is an abomination. You can say he prayed to Father, Son and Holy Spirit, it does not matter. What he did was send a message to them.

He did not call them to Christ, did he?

Has he ever?

You may wish to read Dominus Jesus by Ratzinger.

And remember, there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church, period. If there are people saved in ignorance that is up to God and we cannot know who those are, if any.

Every time a pope does these things, he leave others in their darkness to die and go to Hell, objectively speaking.

Michael Pianet said...

Well put, Dorota!

Doug said...

The idolatry of the personal ideal.

Anonymous said...

Pope Benedict is still the Pope. An the self proclaimed Bishop of Rome is the false prophet who is the vicar of the anti christ

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist". Saint Gregory of Great.

Anonymous said...

Now Pope Benedict Like Peter is a prisioner but he can do nothing. This is a sign because the Church will also escape to the desert where God will sustain us.
“The devil will work to persecute the ministers of the Lord in every way, working with baneful cunning to destroy the spirit of their vocation and corrupting many. Those who will thus scandalize the Christian flock will bring upon all priests the hatred of bad Christians and the enemies of the One, Holy, Roman Catholic, and Apostolic Church. This apparent triumph of Satan will cause enormous suffering to the good pastors of the Church...and to the Supreme Pastor and Vicar of Christ on earth who, a PRISONER in the Vatican, will shed secret and bitter tears in the presence of God Our Lord, asking for light, sanctity, and perfection for all the clergy of the world, to whom he is King and Father.” Prophecies of Our Lady of Good Success About Our Times