"RORATE" Traditional Latin Mass in the Archdiocese of Toronto

Thursday, 7 December 2017

"He that scattered Israel will gather him"

Yesterday's post (one below) on the historical and present reality of the State of Israel and its capital of Jerusalem and the move by the President of the United States to move the American Embassy there from Tel Aviv has provoked some backlash in the comments. I'm fine with that.

In the criticism of my opinion, and that is what a blog is, the writer's opinion, my detractors fail to address my points:


  1. Israel is a fact of historical and current political reality.
  2. Jerusalem was captured by Israel in two wars, not of their making and it has been established by them as their capital city. This is a reality.
  3. The Pope of Rome, rather than wading into this debate should concern himself about their conversion to Christ. He has failed to understand "render unto Ceaser that which is Cesaers and to God, that which is God's."

The destruction of the Temple and the Levite priesthood under the Old Covenant was Divine Providence. After they rejected and then murdered their Messiah, the true Passover Lamb, they continued to offer the blood of animals for the forgiveness of sins. This could not continue, it would have been an abomination and the Lord had to end it and the Romans were used by God to do it. 

For two thousand years, and most recently since the wretched Second Vatican Council, the Church has refused to engage in the "solemn nonsense" of proselytism, according to Bergoglio, and has left the Jews in their "blindness" and their "perfidy," that is by their lack of faith, from the Latin, fide. The modernist Catholic Church has failed to be a mission not only to the Jews, but to the Moslems, it is to our shame.

I found it most interesting praying Lauds this morning. Shall we have a look at these?

Ant. My people, * said the Lord, shall be filled with good things.
Canticle of Jeremias * Jer 31:10-18
31:10 Hear the word of the Lord, O ye nations, * and declare it in the islands that are afar off,
31:11 And say: He that scattered Israel will gather him: * and he will keep him as the shepherd doth his flock.

31:12 For the Lord hath redeemed Jacob, * and delivered him out of the hand of one that was mightier than he.
31:13 And they shall come, and shall give praise in mount Sion: * and they shall flow together to the good things of the Lord,
31:14 For the corn, and wine, and oil, * and the increase of cattle and herds,
31:15 And their soul shall be as a watered garden, * and they shall be hungry no more.
31:16 Then shall the virgin rejoice in the dance, * the young men and old men together:
31:17 And I will turn their mourning into joy, * and will comfort them, and make them joyful after their sorrow.
31:18 And I will fill the soul of the priests with fatness: * and my people shall be filled with my good things.
V. Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, * and to the Holy Ghost.
R. As it was in the beginning, is now, * and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
Ant. My people, said the Lord, shall be filled with good things.

Is that not enough? How about the next one?

Ant. To our God * be joyful and fitting praise.
Psalm 146
146:1 Praise ye the Lord, because psalm is good: * to our God be joyful and comely praise.
146:2 The Lord buildeth up Jerusalem: * he will gather together the dispersed of Israel

146:3 Who healeth the broken of heart, * and bindeth up their bruises.
146:4 Who telleth the number of the stars: * and calleth them all by their names.
146:5 Great is our Lord, and great is his power: * and of his wisdom there is no number.
146:6 The Lord lifteth up the meek, * and bringeth the wicked down even to the ground.
146:7 Sing ye to the Lord with praise: * sing to our God upon the harp.
146:8 Who covereth the heaven with clouds, * and prepareth rain for the earth.
146:9 Who maketh grass to grow on the mountains, * and herbs for the service of men.
146:10 Who giveth to beasts their food: * and to the young ravens that call upon him.
146:11 He shall not delight in the strength of the horse: * nor take pleasure in the legs of a man.
146:12 The Lord taketh pleasure in them that fear him: * and in them that hope in his mercy.
V. Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, * and to the Holy Ghost.
R. As it was in the beginning, is now, * and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
Ant. To our God be joyful and fitting praise.

Do we really think God hates his Chosen People? The leaders of His Church have failed. Now, he has gathered the Jews in one place where somehow, in some yet undetermined way, they will come back to Him through His Church and so will the Mohammedans.

He will do this, because His love for the children of Abraham, through Isaac and Ismael has never ended.

I will close with this from David Warren:


From a Christian point of view, it is well that Israel persists, and occupies our common Holy Land. Our question is only, Who will better protect our ancient shrines, and grant our pilgrims access to them, Israel or Hamas? And the answer to that is, Duh.


22 comments:

Jack Collinson said...

1. Israel is a fact of historical and current political reality.
2. Jerusalem was captured by Israel in two wars, not of their making and it has been established by them as their capital city. This is a reality.

Nobody objects to these facts. What we object to is the false and absurd notion that the Jews still have any divine right to the Holy Land, which they forfeited through their rebellion and execution of its King, Jesus Christ.

And say: He that scattered Israel will gather him: * and he will keep him as the shepherd doth his flock.

This refers to the Catholic Church, the new and eternal Israel. All the other verses you quoted are interepted in this way by the Fathers as well. All the references to Israel, to Jerusalem, and to Mount Sion take on a new meaning in the New Testament, according to the teaching of the Church. To imagine that Israel still refers to the apostate Jews, that Jerusalem refers to that city that was levelled to the ground by Titus, and that Mount Sion refers to a physical mountain on Mount Sion - is against the teaching of the Church and contrary to the Catholic faith. All those realities have been SUPERSEDED by the higher realities of the New Testament.

Do we really think God hates his Chosen People?

Catholics are God's chosen people, not Jews . . .

He will do this, because His love for the children of Abraham

Catholics are the children of Abraham, not Jews - read St. Paul.

Anonymous said...

I'm with you Vox. In my traditional old school Catholic upbringing we never had it out for the Jews. Am I wrong in suspecting (just musing) that many of those here who have expressed derision for the Jews and Israel have had Jesuit educations? I have been praying for the conversion of the Jews since I heard Roy Schoeman, author of Salvation is the from the Jews, speak about God's plan and the chosen people. Worth a study. www.salvationisfromthejews.com

DisturbedMary

Anonymous said...

+JMJ
"We cannot prevent Jews from going to Jerusalem, but we can never sanction it. Jews have not recognized Our Lord, therefore we cannot recognize the Jewish people. They had ample time to acknowledge Christ's divinity without pressure, but they didn't. Should the Jews manage to set foot on the once promised old-new land, the missionaries of the Church would stand prepared to baptize them. Jerusalem cannot be placed in Jewish hands."
To Theodor Herzl in a meeting in the Vatican (25 January 1904), quoted in "Catholic Church's long road to accepting Judaism" in The Los Angeles Times (11 May 2009), "Jews Can't Take "Yes" for an Answer" (2000) by Harold M. Schulweis, and "Theodore Herzl and the Pope"

Anonymous said...

The Jews were God's chosen people. After the promulgation of the Gospel, ie the death of Jesus on the cross, the chosen people are the Catholics, comprised Jews who acknowledge Jesus Christ to be the Messiah, and the Gentiles. Both racial converts to the Catholic Faith have to abandon all previous beliefs. Not the perfidious Jews who rejected Jesus Christ and continue to offer animal sacrifices in antipication of the coming of another messiah that they hope for. Such Jews according to the constant teaching of the Catholic Church are not the chosen people. Israel now refers to the Catholic Church, the sole true religion outside of which no one can be saved.

Jack Collinson said...

I pray for the conversion of the Jews as well. I think it's a great tragedy for each and every Jew that they are separated from Jesus Christ their own Messiah, and, due to the stubbornness of their hearts, continue to wander about aimlessly and unfilled looking for the false Messiah (who will eventually come to them, in the person of the Antichrist, whom the Fathers testify will be a Jew of the tribe of Dan).

But pretending that the Jews have not fallen from grace in rejecting and killing Christ, that they are still God's chosen people and the descendants of Abraham (when the New Testament is clear that only those that accept Christ are), that their covenant with God is still valid (when in fact it has been superseded and remains only in the Church), and that they have any right to the Holy Land (which was justly taken away from them and which they now have no use for as they are deprived of the priesthood) - goes against the conversion of the Jews, because it lessens the enormity of their crimes and their need for conversion.

The Jews are emphatically not God's chosen people. They are the first and most rabid persecutors of God's people, from the apostolic era and down through the ages. As St. Paul testifies, they are the enemies of mankind (c.f. 1 Thess 2:15).

Anonymous said...


Hi Vox,

Normally I am a huge fan but I second Jack Collinson above - with one slight change, in the New Testament the Chosen are the predestined - those who will get to heaven. This number is made up mostly of Christians because Christ is the Saviour.

Jack is right everywhere else though - 'Israel' refers to the Catholic Christian Church. Jerusalem is a symbol variously for Heaven, the Church etc.
The Jews are NOT the chosen people any more - the Old Civenant is TOTALLY DEFUNCT and no longer exists.

Johnno said...

Nobody actually disagrees with any of those 3 points.

It's just that the latest news is concerning because Trump is stirring up a tempest in a teapot.

There's a reason the UN made Jerusalem an international territory, even if it is under the custody of the Secular State of Israel.

The region is too volatile and this was the best compromise. This is just going to stir up turmoil and lead to war.

To state that one is either with Israel or with Hamas is a very simplistic Bush era line.

For one thing, Israel itself created HAMAS, just as America created Al Queda. And both Israel and America would create and enable ISIS.

From the Wapo article - How Israel helped create Hamas:

"Hamas launched in 1988 in Gaza at the time of the first intifada, or uprising, with a charter now infamous for its anti-Semitism and its refusal to accept the existence of the Israeli state. But for more than a decade prior, Israeli authorities actively enabled its rise.

At the time, Israel's main enemy was the late Yasser Arafat's Fatah party, which formed the heart of the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO). Fatah was secular and cast in the mold of other revolutionary, leftist guerrilla movements waging insurgencies elsewhere in the world during the Cold War. The PLO carried out assassinations and kidnappings and, although recognized by neighboring Arab states, was considered a terrorist organization by Israel; PLO operatives in the occupied territories faced brutal repression at the hands of the Israeli security state.

Meanwhile, the activities of Islamists affiliated with Egypt's banned Muslim Brotherhood were allowed in the open in Gaza — a radical departure from when the Strip was administered by the secular-nationalist Egyptian government of Gamal Abdel Nasser. Egypt lost control of Gaza to Israel after the 1967 Arab-Israeli war, which saw Israel also seize the West Bank. In 1966, Nasser had executed Sayyid Qutb, one of the Brotherhood's leading intellectuals. The Israelis saw Qutb's adherents in the Palestinian territories, including the wheelchair-bound Sheik Ahmed Yassin, as a useful counterweight to Arafat's PLO."

Johnno said...

contd>

So the Americans created the Mujahadeen/Al Qeda etc. to fight the Communists.

Israel created HAMAS to fight the PLO

America, Israel, Canada and the UK created ISIS to fight Assad and Syria.

Proxy groups, the enemy of my enemy, to fight on your behalf. Groups that have directly led to the mass slaughter of Christians and Muslims too, and neither Washington nor Tel Aviv gave a damn.

There's a lot more to the story Vox. Including the Oded Yinon Greater Israel plan.

"“[The Yinon plan] is an Israeli strategic plan to ensure Israeli regional superiority. It insists and stipulates that Israel must reconfigure its geo-political environment through the balkanization of the surrounding Arab states into smaller and weaker states.

"Israeli strategists viewed Iraq as their biggest strategic challenge from an Arab state. This is why Iraq was outlined as the centerpiece to the balkanization of the Middle East and the Arab World. In Iraq, on the basis of the concepts of the Yinon Plan, Israeli strategists have called for the division of Iraq into a Kurdish state and two Arab states, one for Shiite Muslims and the other for Sunni Muslims. The first step towards establishing this was a war between Iraq and Iran, which the Yinon Plan discusses.

The Atlantic, in 2008, and the U.S. military’s Armed Forces Journal, in 2006, both published widely circulated maps that closely followed the outline of the Yinon Plan. Aside from a divided Iraq, which the Biden Plan also calls for, the Yinon Plan calls for a divided Lebanon, Egypt, and Syria. The partitioning of Iran, Turkey, Somalia, and Pakistan also all fall into line with these views. The Yinon Plan also calls for dissolution in North Africa and forecasts it as starting from Egypt and then spilling over into Sudan, Libya, and the rest of the region."

https://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815

All of which seems to inform conspiracy theories that Israel preferred Hamas specifically because a group like this was useful for getting what you want - get yourself attacked. Claim the right to self defense or pre-emptive warfare. Move into Palestinian territory and occupy it piece by piece past the borders set for you by the UN. And this extends also into Syrian territory!

Johnno said...

contd>

There are a lot of bones to pick with Israel, but let's stick to the current issue.

Jerusalem holds immense symbolic value. If Jerusalem could've been officially transferred over to Israel as their capital, nobody would be concerned, but that's certainly what is not going to happen, and ISRAEL and the US DESIRE THAT OUTCOME.

This is NOT about safety. Israel doesn't need Jerusalem from any military or even any large economic one considering pilgrims already come through and prefer staying and spending in Israel than the other side of the wall where Bethlehem is other than a tour bus in and out. If anything, tensions only reduce the pilgrimages and the tourism.

With the Russians and Syrians putting an end to ISIS, another situation/false flag needs to be triggered to continue. Some pretext to strike at Assad and Iran and Hezbollah. And the issue of Jerusalem helps create that climate through antagonizing a specific group of people who can either give rise to patsies or a convenient pretext for an actual or false flag attack.

The point - They failed to partition Syria. So like pouting children they are probably taking Jerusalem now as a middle finger gesture. They need some outward semblance of victory.

This has NOTHING to do with any Biblical or holy religious motives. God is not in the picture other than to insultingly use Him and Scripture as a pawn of an international geopolitical chessboard.

Jeremiah was prophesying the return of the Jews after their destruction and exile which occurred post-Solomon. so there's no contradiction between what he stated and what is reasonable criticism of the State of Israel today. We should keep in mind that much of what we are told was divinely providential with regards to Israel today is from the viewpoint of American Protestants who rejecting the Church read prophecy as regarding a Democratic State and NOT the Catholic Church which is the successor of Israel, and is currently threatened with destruction and exile of faithful Catholics very similar to the state Judah and Israel were in before calamity struck it.

Now with concern to Francis, it seems clear to everyone that he's only taking cheap pot shots at Trump, and should take the original Vatican position of 'no comment' with regards to anything to do with Israeli state affairs. Other than of course generally praying for a good resolution and peace and all that good stuff.

James Joseph said...

Some sects say that a re-established Israel shows Christ's promise to be false.

However, they have not occupied the Temple mount.

I am with P. Francis on this one. No need to egg on Islamic violence while simultaneously allowing Protestants an attempt to prove Rome false.

TH2 said...

With respect, Mr. Vox, here is Pius X:

"We cannot prevent Jews from going to Jerusalem, but we can never sanction it. Jews have not recognized Our Lord, therefore we cannot recognize the Jewish people. They had ample time to acknowledge Christ's divinity without pressure, but they didn't. Should the Jews manage to set foot on the once promised old-new land, the missionaries of the Church would stand prepared to baptize them. Jerusalem cannot be placed in Jewish hands."

Also, be wary of anything written by the Neo-Catholic elitist, establishment-connected-"conservative" snobs who write for "The Catholic Thing", such as the one you quoted.

Kathleen1031 said...

There are a zillion things I'd like to know something about, but don't. This whole topic is one. I find your argument compelling, but also Jack Collinson makes a good point too. Which is it? Does Israel "belong" to the Jews or the Christians? Interesting topic!

Barbara Jensen said...

It is very sad to read that followers of Jesus so clearly reject the concept of people opening to Christ when they are not preoccupied with defending their own roots. No genuine apostle for Jesus rams His Truth down the throat of someone not disposed to accept Him. Christ Himself, when He was on earth, did not offer Himself to others in this way. Not accepting the Jewish people having their capital in Jerusalem, where they want it, is to deny them their right to be who they are. This non acceptance of them will not lead them to Jesus. Souls are led to Christ in the same way Jesus led persons who were not of the Jewish Faith. The story of the Samaritan woman at the well comes to mind. Christ never took the attitude of 'I'm right and you're wrong.' it is glaring bigotry not to allow the Jewish the freedom to have their capitol where they choose to have it.

Donna Ruth said...

REPETITIO:
Vox, where does a Canadian access The Dictator Pope? It is not on Amazon.ca. And Cdns cannot download Kindle from Amazon.ca. You are reading it, so how did you get it? Thanks.

Peter Lamb said...

Talmudic jews and muslims hate Christ with equal passion. Here is the politically incorrect Catholic position on the jews:

“The Jews, who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and have persecuted us, do not please God, and they are adversaries to all men, prohibiting us from speaking to the Gentiles that they may be saved, to fill up their sin always: for the wrath of God has come upon them to the end.”
— St. Paul, I Thessalonians 2:14-16

“You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit! Was there ever a prophet your fathers did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him, you who have received the law that was put into effect through angels but have not obeyed it.”
–St. Stephen, Acts 7:51-53

“It would be licit, according to custom, to hold the Jews in perpetual servitude because of their crime.”
— St. Thomas Aquinas

“Crucifiers of Christ ought to be held in continual subjection.”
— Pope Innocent III

“The Lord made Cain a wanderer and fugitive over the earth, but set a mark upon him, lest anyone finding him might slay him. Thus the Jews, against whom the blood of Christ calls out, although they ought not be killed, nevertheless as wanderers they must remain upon the earth until their faces be filled with shame and they seek the name of Jesus Christ the Lord.”
— Pope Innocent III

“Ungrateful for favors and forgetful of benefits, the Jews return insult for kindness and impious contempt for goodness granted. They ought to know the yoke of perpetual enslavement because of their guilt. See to it that the perfidious Jews never in the future grow insolent, but that in servile fear they always suffer publicly the shame of their sin.”
— Pope Gregory IX

“Let the Gospel be preached to them and, if they remain obstinate, let them be expelled.”
— Pope Leo VII

Peter Lamb said...

“One who dies a Jew will be damned.”
— St. Vincent Ferrer

“The Jews are enemies of God and foes of our holy religion.”
— Padre Pio.

“The Jews were unworthy to perceive the meaning of the divinely-inspired Scriptures which speak of the mystery of Christ. And because they had taken no notice of the truth, they made themselves unworthy of the salvation which flows from Christ.”
— St. Cyril of Alexandria

“Jews are slayers of the Lord, murderers of the prophets, enemies and haters of God, adversaries of grace, enemies of their fathers’ faith, advocates of the devil, a brood of vipers, slanderers, scoffers, men of darkened minds, the leaven of Pharisees, a congregation of demons, sinners, wicked men, haters of goodness!”
— St. Gregory of Nyssa

“The Jews wander over the entire earth, their backs bent and their eyes cast downward, forever calling to our minds the curse they carry with them.”
-St. Augustine

“If someone should kill the beloved son of a man, and then stretch forth their hands still stained with blood to the afflicted father, asking for fellowship, would not the blood of his son, visible on the hand of his murderer, provoke him to just anger instead? And such are the prayers of the Jews, for when they stretch forth their hands in prayer, they only remind God-the-Father of their sin against His Son. And at every stretching-forth of their hands, they only make it obvious that they are stained with the blood of Christ. For they who persevere in their blindness inherit the blood-guilt of their fathers; for they cried out: “His blood be upon us, and upon our children” (Matthew xxvii.25).”
— St. Basil the Great

“Poor Jews! You invoked a dreadful curse upon your own heads in saying: “His blood be on us and our children”; and that curse, miserable race, you carry upon you to this day, and to the End of Time you shall endure the chastisement of that innocent blood. O my Jesus! … I will not be obstinate like the Jews. I will love Thee forever, forever, forever!”
— St. Alphonsus Maria Liguori

“We order all our brother bishops absolutely to suppress the blasphemy of Jews in your dioceses, churches, and communities, so that they do not dare raise their necks, bent under eternal slavery, to revile the Redeemer.”
— Pope Gregory IX

“It is known that the Jewish people are polluted with wickedness, blasphemy, and the shedding of the blood of Jesus Christ so that their wickedness has no limit.”
— St. Felix of Toledo

Peter Lamb said...

Who are the masters of the masons? Who are the alta vendita? Who have invaded and are trying to destroy Christ's Church? Which holy saint wore the ephod?

http://www.talmudunmasked.com/links.htm

Vox Cantoris said...

Donna Ruth:

I downloaded it but you need to put an app on your computer if you do not have Kindle.

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201245960

https://www.amazon.ca/Dictator-Pope-Marcantonio-Colonna-ebook/dp/B077SP6SSR/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1512740451&sr=8-1&keywords=dictator+pope

Anonymous said...

Barbara Jensen, care to respond to any of Peter Lamb's papal quotations?Because they are the truth, not the modernist drivel you wrote.

Anonymous said...

@ Paul Morphy

Jerusalem should be an international city ie. no one nation/state should have a single unilateral claim upon it's custody.

Vox Cantoris said...

So, let’s put in the hands of the UN and the Antichrist.

Mar said...

"So, let's put [it]in the hands of the UN and the Antichrist."

Well, OK. But the troublesome fact is, that many Catholic saints, prophets, teachers have said that the Antichrist will be Jewish.

"The Church Fathers believed that Antichrist will be of the Jewish race." (Cardinal Manning)

"Who is a liar, but he who denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is Antichrist, who denieth the Father and the Son. (1 John 2:22)

"Antichrist will be possessed by Satan and be the illegitimate son of a Jewish woman from the East." (St John Chrysostom)

"Antichrist will rule the world from Jerusalem, which he will make into a magnificent city." (St Anselm)

"Antichrist will teach that Christ was an impostor, and not the real Son of God." (St Hilary)

"Christ arose from among the Hebrews, and Antichrist will spring from among the Jews. Christ showed his flesh as a Temple, and raised it up on the third day; and he, too, will raise up again the Temple of stone in Jerusalem." (St Hippolytus)